How to Navigate the Next Generation of Payment Fraud

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Welcome, welcome to today’s Sift webinar. Um, you should be able to see
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my screen, Navigating the Next Generation of Payment Fraud with
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Rebecca, I don’t know where you are on my screen. Rebecca, who will be
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introducing yourself, Stephanie and myself, Charlotte Gerard. Um, so let’s
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get into it with formal introductions. Um, so I am your host, your facilitator,
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your panel person. Uh I’m Charlotte Gerard and I do product marketing here
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at Sift for um our solutions that look at fake account creation, account
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takeovers, and chargebacks. I’m going to hand over to our distinguished guest,
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Stephanie, to introduce herself.
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>> Awesome. I’m Steph. Um really excited to be here. I’ve dedicated, I’d say, the
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last 13 years of my career to this space. I started out in the public
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sector conducting investigations around uh identity theft, moneyaundering,
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credit card schemes, and then um transitioned over to tech where I’ve had
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the privilege of working at companies like Airbnb, Gusto, Plaid. I’m always
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focusing on payments and risk mitigation. Passing it to Rebecca.
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>> Awesome. Well, thank you, Steph. And I’ll just highlight that Stephanie and I
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uh are friends in real life. Uh, so we met each other at Gusto fighting um all
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different types of payroll fraud, credit underwriting, BSA, AML, all that stuff.
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And so we’ve we’ve continued our um relationship since then. I personally
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have also been in the space for a little over a decade now, probably close to 13
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years. Steph, thanks for doing the math. I sometimes I don’t like to admit myself
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how long I’ve been doing this. Um, and I started my career um at Square looking
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really closely at disputes and chargebacks. So I know a lot about
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chargebacks. Um, I worked at Gusto alongside Stephanie and then I spent
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about two and a half years at Stripe thinking critically about how do we make
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the risk experience better for users who who do and have to interact with the
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risk team given a whole suite of issues that comes up with us. So, we’re excited
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to be here today to talk to you about the payments industry.
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All right, let’s go. Um, so an overview of our agenda. So, we are going to be um
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pulling out some interesting stats and insights from our latest uh index report
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that comes from a sum a survey uh from our customers. Um some really
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interesting insights there that will be going into. Then we’re going to have a
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kind of open style discussion with Stephanie and Rebecca um poking at some
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specific questions that those insights raise. Um, as it goes with our webinars,
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if you have questions or things you’d like to discuss that we’ll make for time
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for at the end, then pop them into the chat, um, and we’ll get to as many of
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them as we can. Um, we’re going to start with a little brag preamble here. Um,
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since we are a company that likes to let you know what we’re doing well. Um so we
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wanted to just highlight again um how thrilled we are to have been recognized
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as a leader in the first forest Forester wave for digital fraud management. Um
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this evaluation was the first of its kind and came out last August. Um and we
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were privileged to be recognized for having a broad coverage of fraud
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management capabilities. Um we were recognized for covering not only diverse
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payment types but non-payment fraud including account and contents abuse as
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well as um chargeback and chargeback management. Other things that were
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pulled out as some um brag alert spotlights for SIFT were that our rules
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and risk scoring capabilities exceeded those of uh the other solutions in our
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closer competitor set and our plans for innovation. what we shared with them
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about our road map stood out from the other vendors that were also being
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evaluated. So, it’s an incredible piece of validation for us and we do like to
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tout it as much as we can. Um, we also like to have a little brag moment about
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some of the logos, the customers that we’re very proud to support. Um, and
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just as a reminder for those that maybe are new to CIFF, don’t know so much
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about us, we identify as a machine learning company that protects
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businesses and their users from various forms of uh, fraud and abuse and also
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helps them grow. So, helps them protect and grow the bottom line. Um, the way we
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look at fraud is that everyday fraudsters collaborate to take advantage
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of our customers and our collective systems. And that’s why we exist because
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we want to level the playing field. Um, and not only have bad actors being the
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ones that are able to collaborate and evolve and share tools, technologies,
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and best practices, we want to do that, too. So, that’s what we’re doing today
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with today’s webinars, giving you our point of view on the latest and greatest
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information about payment fraud and how it’s evolving.
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So, what is inside the report and what are the key takeaways we are wanting to
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share with you today? Yeah. So, I’ll go ahead and hop right in
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here. Um so I just want to ground you guys in some of the stats that we found.
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Again just to remind our sift conducts quarterly surveys. We ask um consumers
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uh you know various questions to get an understand or understanding or a pulse
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of what’s happening in the broader market. So one of the first things that
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we found was most shocking is that 42% of Jenzers admitted to first-party fraud
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filing a fraud dispute even though they were satisfied with their purchase. So
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this is up significantly from previous generations which I’ll show you in the
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next slide there. Um and then again 43% of consumers have been a victim of
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payment fraud at least once in the past 18 months. That’s a huge number when you
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think about um the broader consumer market um as well. And then the other
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thing um you know that we’re seeing is like obviously we know that generative
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AI is a huge topic for people and consumers are getting wary of shopping
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online as a result of some of the threats that this might pose. So 30% of
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consumers informed us that they’re going to shop online less frequently due to
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cyber security threats posed by artificial intelligence. Um I think some
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of the things you can think of is like you know people are just less willing to
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trust images that they’re seeing online. Um they may or may not be true and so
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maybe they’re going to go back to brickandmortar shopping so that they can
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get 100% confirmation that the items that they’re they’re about to purchase
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um are real. If we move forward there’s a little bit more stats to come.
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This is the breakdown generation generationally. Um, so again, 42% seems
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like a big number, but it’s quite a significant jump from the millennial
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counterparts by 22% stating that they’ve done this. Again, Gen Gen X 10% and baby
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boomers 5%. So, we can see just the growing trend of of these generations uh
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admitting to engaging in first-p partyy fraud. Now, this is an admission, right?
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So, you know, maybe millennials are closer to Gen Z than than we might like
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to say, but um it’s interesting to see that um not only are people
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participating in this type of fraud, but that they’re just blatantly admitting um
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to, you know, engaging in this behavior. And so, it what it means for business is
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that we need to get more thoughtful about our our return policies um
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fighting and challenging chargebacks and also um blocking potential fraudulent
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transactions further up in the customer life cycle here.
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And then um it’s not only uh the generational increase that we’re seeing
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but we’re also seeing an increase in uh various types of industries. For
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example, eye gaming. Um this is becoming increasingly high. I’ll also say that
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this report um looked at our Q1. So that’s inclusive of February. In eye
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gaming we also include um our our gambling sites. Um and so we know that
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Super Bowl is a really big um gambling holiday there. So that’s the spike for
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those things that we see which might also be increasing this 93%. But we’ve
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seen an increase in ticketing, food deliveries, and retail as well. Um
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ticketing we’ve seen uh you know a lot of people we’ve talked to our ticketing
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and they say that they really challenging because they might have
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actually attended the event but then they’re going ahead and say they didn’t
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actually attend that event and they’re getting uh their money and and food
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back. So, it’s interesting to see the types of industries here, and we’ll talk
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about this later, um that are experiencing the increase um in payment
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fraud across our networks.
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>> And the millennials and Gen Z love T Swift. So, is that a macroeconomic
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element?
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>> Maybe. I mean, there’s also just I mean, last summer, right, like we could think
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about it, there’s huge tours like Beyonce, Taylor Swift, like you know,
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the jokes that they stimulated the economy um right last summer. So, I do
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feel like there’s just an overall shift back to concerts that we haven’t seen um
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for quite some time. So, I think the denominator is growing there, too.
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>> Thank God.
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>> Yeah. What does this mean to your business? I
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feel like I’m preaching to the choir here, but um you know, there was $ 38
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billion in in uh merchant losses due to payment fraud in 2023. And this number
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is only expecting to grow. So, there’s predictions that it’s going to soar to a
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total of 362 billion by 2028. Um, so this is a problem that’s everpresent for
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merchants and it’s not expected to go away. Compounding with your financial
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losses here to your bottom line, 76% of consumers told us that they’d stop using
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or shopping on a site where they’ve been a victim of payment fraud. So you’re
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also looking at losses and then potential churn, right, if this happens
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to your company as well. Um, and then also the other thing that I think is
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really interesting and when I’ve talked to consumers is they don’t they think
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that the business is responsible to cover the fraud that’s happened on their
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card. Even if necessarily that’s not legally the case, right? And so when
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you’re thinking about brand and reputation, you may also have to pay out
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your consumers who’ve experienced fraud on your case on your site, even if
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you’re not necessarily legally obligated to do so. But the general mind frame of
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most consumers is that if fraud happens to them, whether it be through account
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takeovers or their card got compromised that they will be made whole somehow.
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Um, and again, we all know in the industry that that’s not always the case
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that it’s also on the consumers to protect themselves as they’re shopping
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online. And with that, just so we’re at the same
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level field of um the stats that we’re going to be talking about the impact to
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your businesses, we’re going to move forward to the panel discussion now.
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Yay. All right. Also, I’d like to say really quick, so I know we said we’d
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hold questions for the end. If you guys have comments or questions while we’re
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having this discussion, please feel free to add them in the Q&A. We’d like to
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make this interactive as well. Um, so feel free to just reach out in the chat.
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Absolutely. Okay. So to kick off our discussion, um we’re going to start with
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the biggest scariest stat that never goes away and interestingly keeps going
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up every year. Um the 38 billion uh dollars in losses from payment fraud
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last year and the expectation that they’re going to sore to um 362 billion
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by 2028. Delicious. Um I’m curious for you, Stephanie. Um can you tell us a bit
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about actually let’s start with like what’s
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some context setting for uh your role in your current position um and what you
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would say are the top two to three jobs that you’re getting done on a weekly
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basis. Let’s start there and then we’ll dive into your uh expert insight into
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how to think about this.
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>> Yeah, totally. Um, as far as my current role, it’s very different from the
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payment fraud roles because I’m currently focused on climate risk. So,
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we’re going to put that aside. Um, but in my roles before, I’ve normally been
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responsible for finding that right balance between how do you mitigate risk
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on a platform while being mindful of of growth and and and finding the right
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balance between those two. And so, I like to break those things across three
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different pillars. There’s detection. So how do you detect what’s going when
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there’s um behavior going on the platform that’s potentially abusive or
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fraudulent? How do you mitigate it? So do you block it? Do you send it for
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review? Do you friction it? So what is the right way to think about that
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dynamically? And then there’s like the platform services. So how do you build
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services that are scalable and make it really easy as far as like when new
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features or business units are being developed? How do you make it really
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easy to give them access access to the catalog of services that you’ve built
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across detection and mitigation? And so my primary focus has always been those
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three pillars and how do you scale those whether it’s at Airbnb where you’re
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thinking about um payments globally across different business units and
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services or gusto which is a payroll in the US at the time. And so just thinking
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about how do you how do you um scale those three pillars?
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Um, yeah. Does that answer your question?
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>> Yeah, it does. Um, so then let’s jump in. With those being your three pillars,
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I’m assuming, and tell me if I’m wrong for assuming, that
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the priority of each would change depending on the business that you’re
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at, the kind of teams and resources that you have available to you, and the kind
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of buy in and understanding that you have between different decision makers.
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So I would love to know um in the context of the question of how payment
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fraud has evolved over the past year or so.
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>> What do you think has been consistently the biggest priority within those
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pillars? What’s the thing to get right first and focus on?
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>> The biggest part is detection. So how do you think how do you develop your rules
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and machine learning models to be able to detect abusive behavior on the
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platform? and how do you adapt those to evolving patterns on the platform? Do
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you do that across um different types of abuse sectors or do you develop models
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across different abuse sectors or geos or payment method types? So I would say
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that that would be the primary um focus a lot of the time if you don’t get that
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right then your mitigation won’t really work and so you have to really focus on
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the detection component and that has evolved um over time the the patterns
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evolve right the abusive patterns evolve how the individuals who are conducting
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um payment fraud are also changing I think for a long time we thought that it
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would be a bad actor um who is you know focused on only doing payment fraud, but
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we’ve seen more recently that it it is, you know, younger folks in college or,
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you know, different individuals who are actually increasingly finding loopholes
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um and then they’re actually exploiting them because they’re learning through
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social media, through Tik Tok, through Reddit. And so the persona of who
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conducts fraud has is is has definitely involved evolved in in in recent years.
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>> Yeah, I’ll just like plus one and double down on that. I think one of the biggest
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trends I’ve seen over the last year here is just this increase in first-party
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fraud, whether that be through refund fraud or first-party fraud. And so when
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Stephanie talks about detections, it’s also like, okay, you need to go back to
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your policies and your procedures. What are your refund policies? I talked to a
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lot of businesses where they maybe don’t make that super clear or they don’t
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internally know like, do you have a cap of of the refunds that you can have? I
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know Sephora, for example, I saw on on TikTok, they’ll only allow up to $2,500
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of refunds per year per person. And so people are starting to put caps on
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refunds, so they don’t get these people who are just constantly refunding. Maybe
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using a product once or twice, taking it back, wearing a dress once, taking it
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back. And so people are really looking back onto their policies and procedures
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that they really expanded, especially over COVID, to get people shopping
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online. And now they’re having to take those back and redefine what those
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policies and procedures are because as Steph mentioned, the personas are
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changing. It’s no longer this nefarious bad actor that’s somewhere behind a
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computer typing. It’s, you know, people using their real credentials to come in
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and and knowingly or maybe thinking it’s a loophole or opportunistically um
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taking advantage of your business policies. So it’s starting with making
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sure those policies are clear and kind and and made available to all your
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consumers as well.
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>> I’m curious. Um, we will move on to some of the other stats we wanted to dig
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into, but I I feel like it would be valuable to hear what did it look like
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um in terms of being the person that needed to educate other co-working
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collaborative partners in your various organizations about like, hey, this is
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what we were measuring. This was the metric of success. It’s changed like and
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here’s why or this is what we need to bring in or change about our strategy.
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Um, did you feel like you had to be the educator in your broad roles for the
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rest of the org?
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>> Yeah, I’ll jump in and I’m sure Steph has some good stories, too. I mean, yes,
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100%. And not just the educator, but making a conversation with us not scary,
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right? Like I feel like, you know, back when we were in person, if I was walking
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over to the sales department, everyone would be like, “Oh no, what happened?”
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There’d be something wrong. So, how do you make yourself approachable? How do
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you educate um you know I know security says this a lot. I think it’s true of
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risk like you know every single person is on the security team or on the risk
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team that’s internally and and how do you you share that especially at
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businesses where you know payments is the primary focus. It’s important
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because we’re all touching these financial moments and we’re all
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interacting with fraud and like social engineering can happen um to a
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saleserson it can happen to anybody that’s on the phone interacting with
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somebody right and so how do we we uh educate them? I think metrics is I think
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that’s interesting. I think you should always ground conversation in metrics,
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especially with partner teams. But when it comes to educating teams that are not
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so ingrained in your day-to-day, I think just sharing the the qualitative stories
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of of customers or criminals is actually more engaging to those people versus
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being like these are the metrics that we’re trying to hit. I mean, that’s
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important again if you’re trying to get buy in for resources to build tools, but
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from an education factor, I find it’s better to talk about, you know, just
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individual narratives of your customers and who you’re working with.
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>> Plus one, um, I’d also add that I like to really leverage past cases to do
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education. And so a concrete example is like for a long time all of our all our
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teams were really focused on chargebacks but then monetary risk was growing in
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other areas. So you can think incentives, you can think refund as
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Rebecca had mentioned and really walking each one of our stakeholders through
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what does fraud look like and how does it um come to fruition for each one of
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these types of vectors has been really helpful in those conversations because
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it allows them to attach themselves to a real case.
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makes sense. Um I’m going to jump down to um another stat that I think would be
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interesting to pick apart. So where we found that 76 of the consumers that we
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surveyed would stop using or shopping on a site where they had been a victim of
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payment fraud. I’m assuming you know that scenario could be a kind of
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concrete concrete example case that you could bring to your decision makers and
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partners in an org. Did you do you feel like that was widely accepted between
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other departments within an org or did you feel like that was ever as much of a
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concern or taken as seriously? like taking it back to Rebecca, your comment
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about what are our policies and things that are in place to protect oursel
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within the user experience before something bad even happens. Um how much
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of a friction point was that and just having alignment on that fact like yes
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fraud really does actually impact our cost of acquisition, our brand
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reputation and we’re looking at that and we care about it.
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>> Yeah, I think um people I think other departments realize and understand that.
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I think something that I tried to talk through and measure was riskrevention’s
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impact on conversion, right? Because when we’re working at these high growth
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companies, we want to make sure that conversion number stays the same. And
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the internal research that I’ve done at the companies I’ve worked for is that it
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really sending out an information request form to ask for more information
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from an end user really didn’t hurt conversion in the end. Um, and so if
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you’re able to be safer and still have the same levels of growth, that’s like
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the winning narrative that you want to find. And then also I found that um, not
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only did it hurt not hurt conversion, but if you were to ask for information
20:27
from somebody and they responded to to you, they were more likely to stay with
20:31
the company because you can see that there’s already an engagement, right?
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They’re already willing to provide this information for you. They want to join
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your services. And so it actually was an interesting um counterpoint to think,
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oh, asking for this information is helpful not only for my riskrevention
20:46
programs, but also for my growth sector. Stephanie, I’m sure you’ve got some some
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insights, too.
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>> Um, I will challenge that.
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>> Okay. I love that.
20:56
>> I will challenge that because the reality is that at least in the places
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I’ve worked, the there is a cost to there’s a good user impact. there is a
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cost uh when it comes to the defenses that you deploy. It’s not it’s not never
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going to be it’s not going to be zero. And so I think what’s important is
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finding out what is the impact that your your business is
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willing to take in order to defend the platform. Um, it goes back to my first
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comment around finding that right balance and like where do you put that
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model threshold or what parameters do you define for a rule. There’s always
21:36
going to be a cost to conversion. It’s just what is the right cost for the
21:41
business where you get the where the net revenue or the net, you know, metric
21:47
ends up being positive for the business. Because if you skew it too much one way
21:52
or the other, it’s going to cost way more than if you just find the right
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balance.
21:56
>> That’s fair.
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>> Sorry.
21:59
>> Oh, it’s fine. It’s fine. Um, so I think, you know, a lot of the
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conversations I’ve had at companies I’ve worked is, you know, walking them
22:08
through several different scenarios of like, hey, when we put the model
22:12
threshold here, this is what it cost as far as conversion, LTV, operational
22:18
cost, um, refunds, chargebacks, fees, and so like really breaking that down
22:22
and figuring out what is the right model threshold for for the best um, net
22:29
positive for the business. So, um, just just a little thing.
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>> Well, I’ll push back one more time on you, right? Um, I think I can do it.
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>> I agree. My only push back with that will be I think that the conversion cost
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is often a less impact than your grow teams will think, right? Yes.
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>> Especially in regulated industries. So primarily I’ve worked at fintech
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companies where they’re akin to a financial services company or they are a
22:59
financial services company but they’re akin to a bank where people are
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accustomed to providing information to get a bank account or provide
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information and so therefore they don’t find that too frictionfilled as maybe
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let’s say for an Airbnb like why do I need this information? I’m just try like
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when you go to a hotel no one’s asking me for my like information when I’m
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booking a hotel on expedia.com so why would I get asked the same information
23:20
on Airbnb? So I do think your industry matters and I do think less impacted
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when you’re in a more regulated industry. So
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>> that’s that’s totally true cuz I think your expectations change depending on
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the platform. If you take for instance when I worked at Plaid, I think there’s
23:35
more um there’s more willingness to like provide information because you are
23:40
trying to bank, right? And so there’s a a little friction there won’t harm as
23:44
much as if like I’m just trying to book a stay at Airbnb. So totally align on
23:48
that. Yeah, I want to some audience questions too, Charlotte. Should we I
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there’s one that’s um said, “Is it generally easier to win first party
23:57
fraud versus a general unauthorized f fraud chargeback?” Um I can take this. I
24:03
did a lot of chargebacks at my day at Square. Um it is right. And so typically
24:09
an unauthorized chargeback does normally mean that the credit card was stolen and
24:15
compromised and therefore that is a legitimate fraudulent charge, right,
24:18
that has been ran. Whereas first party fraud um it is a legitimate charge that
24:24
then you have the rights to counter. And I know Visa did some work um about a
24:29
year and a half ago with Visa 3.0 compelling evidence that enables
24:33
merchants to submit pieces of documentation for online transactions
24:37
because firstparty fraud was getting increasingly challenging to win given
24:41
the online environment. So, if you have um device information or IP information
24:46
and you know that card has purchased on your website, again, you can go ahead
24:49
and challenge those those disputes and also use those pieces of information in
24:54
order to win those chargebacks. Um, I’ll jump in with a follow-up
25:00
question to that and just expand it. Someone asked, “What are some tools,
25:03
apps you guys have used or recommend when it comes to researching disputes,
25:07
claims created by customers that are more than likely not legit?” And I’ll
25:11
expand that to say like, can you both comment on like what approaches you’ve
25:15
used in the past?
25:17
>> Yeah, I can jump in. Have you challenged a lot of chargebacks? I feel like
25:21
>> we did at Airbnb quite a bit. Um and we had we had in providers that helped us
25:27
with that. Um and a lot of it I can just jump in here and then if you want to
25:30
also add color to it. Um but we important what’s really important is
25:36
actually documentation. So like everything from like historical
25:41
transactions that you’ve that that person has had on the platform to their
25:45
sessions and and where they logging in from anything and all that you have
25:49
around that particular consumer where you feel that that charge was
25:53
legitimate. You’ll need to collect all that information and either dispute it
25:57
yourself or work with a third party to help you dispute it. As far as tools and
26:01
stuff, I would say like the most effective tool that you’ll have is that
26:04
internal data to to dispute that. Um, unless you’re working with a vendor who
26:08
has, you know, certain templates or things that they use in order to help
26:11
you dispute.
26:13
>> Yeah. Plus one to that. I I know we spent a lot of time at Square in
26:17
particular thinking really critically about this receipts that we provided to
26:20
people and then we use all our receipt information to challenge on behalf of
26:23
our merchants. So, we made sure that the refund policy was clear and written with
26:27
the rules and regulations that Visa and MX have requested. We also um provided
26:32
the email addresses that those digital receipts were sent to. If there was a
26:35
signed transaction, we made sure we like informed them about the signed
26:38
transaction. Um so there were all those pieces of information that we made sure
26:42
that we had to to go ahead and compile and challenge. The other piece I say,
26:45
and I’m sure you guys know this, is I always think it’s really important for
26:48
you to look at the reason code and the reason why somebody is charging
26:51
something back and tailor your dispute specifically to answer that. um because
26:55
maybe a signed receipt won’t be applicable if um it’s a quality dispute,
27:00
for example. So, you want to make sure that you’re actually looking at the
27:02
documentation provided to you and answering um the card holders claims
27:06
against your business. Plus, one thing I’ll add though is like a lot of times
27:11
what you have is this first party fraud where they will lie about the reason.
27:15
And so something that we did at Airbnb was actually have labeling conducted
27:21
both for the purposes of like training the model but also for disputes and to
27:24
get have um get those labels to understand what was the true reason for
27:29
the chargeback and then dispute it because if you just go based on what
27:33
they might have submitted it may it may be actually not correct.
27:37
>> Yeah.
27:38
>> Could you imagine?
27:40
>> Um okay so we’re at time so I’m going to wrap up here. Uh that went so quick and
27:45
we had so many more questions. We will um capture them. Um
27:51
and just want to share with you that uh you can read the full report um going
27:56
into much more detail and insights and stats than the ones we pulled out for
27:59
you today by going to our website.com and then going to the resources section
28:05
that you can find on the left um uh nav. Um, and the full report is called
28:12
Navigating the Next Generation of Payment Fraud. So, be sure to check that
28:16
out. And then if you have more questions, if you would like to talk to
28:19
a team member about uh more information and helping you in your fraud management
28:25
journey or our solutions, then you can reply to the email that will be coming
28:29
out uh shortly once this webinar ends and we will connect you with a team
28:34
member. And again, there’s just the website or URL for where you can find
28:38
the full report. Um, thank you so much for everyone who attended. Um, we really
28:44
appreciate the engagement. And Stephanie, thank you so much for being
28:48
our distinguished guest and sharing your wisdom. We appreciate it.
28:51
>> Thank you, Stephanie. We super appreciate it. Even if you’re
28:53
challenging me, I love it.
28:58
>> Thanks, everyone. Have a great rest of your day.