As the 2024 holiday season rapidly approaches, it’s crucial for businesses to stay ahead of the curve. Increased sales volume, irregular spending patterns, and heightened fraud risks all contribute to mounting pressure on teams.
This webinar is designed for leaders in charge of organizational changes as well as practitioners on the front lines in fraud, finance, and customer operations who are looking to enhance their strategies and ensure their teams are well-prepared for the holiday season. Sift fraud experts Alexander Hall and Kevin Lee discuss key considerations and offer actionable insights to help your team gear up for the holidays.
Watch the webinar to learn:
- Strategic Planning: Discover how to develop a comprehensive game plan that starts well before the holiday rush and extends beyond it. Learn how to prepare, execute, and respond effectively.
- Holiday Fraud Trends: Stay proactive by understanding both persistent and emerging fraud trends. Equip your team with the knowledge to combat evolving threats.
- Data and Approach Adjustments: Understand the differences between holiday and off-season spending. Learn how to adapt your processes to ensure success during peak times.
- Chargeback Preparedness: Gain insights into best practices for managing the post-holiday chargeback surge. Discover proactive methods to minimize losses and streamline operations.
- Fraud Prevention Beyond Loss Prevention: Leverage an expansive network and in-house data to support your organization’s growth. Fast and accurate decisions streamline processes, reduce cart abandonment rates, boost customer satisfaction, and aid in revenue generation.
Watch the On-Demand Webinar
Video Transcript
0:00
All right, welcome to today’s webinar, Holiday Havoc 2024, strategic
0:05
considerations for this year’s Rush. Uh, my name is Eli. I’m on the marketing
0:09
team here at Sift. And before we dive in, I just want to start with some quick
0:12
housekeeping items. Uh, this webinar is being recorded. It will be made
0:16
available to all registrants and attendees later this week. Uh, we know
0:20
you probably have questions for our speakers, so we reserve some time at the
0:23
end for Q&A, and you can submit your questions throughout the webinar by
0:26
using the Q&A button. We’ll try to answer as many questions as we can live,
0:30
but if we don’t get to your questions here, we’ll be sure to follow up with
0:33
you directly after the webinar. Before we kick things off, I’d like to
0:37
invite you to answer a quick poll question, and we’ll discuss the results
0:42
later in the webinar. So, I’ll share that poll with you.
0:51
The question is which holiday fraud methods are top of mind for you slash
0:56
your organization? Uh options are payment fraud, gift cards such as
1:00
digital physical ones, policy abuse such as refunds and returns, fraud
1:05
chargebacks, and firstparty chargebacks. So go ahead and uh click your answers
1:10
there for the question. Give another minute or so for everyone
1:21
to click their answer and then perhaps while folks are filling
1:36
that out I can move ahead and do some slight introduction. So, um, good
1:41
morning, good afternoon, good evening, folks. Um, my name is Kevin. I lead our
1:46
trust and safety architect team here at Sift. I also oversee all of our customer
1:49
experience teams. It’s a pleasure to talk to you today. Um, we’re talking
1:52
about something that’s very near and dear to my heart um around preparations
1:57
for the holidays. For many, many businesses, this is their Super Bowl.
2:02
This is the thing that they have prepped three quarters for um and now they’re
2:06
entering that zone. uh it can be an exciting time for a business. Frankly,
2:10
they call it Black Friday for a reason. So throughout the year, you might be
2:14
operating in the red and this this kind of short sprint time is when a lot of
2:18
these businesses make it to the black. Um and that’s exciting as well. Um there
2:22
are of course fraud considerations to look over as well, which is why that we
2:26
wanted uh to talk about this topic. So um if you’re uh not familiar with SIFT,
2:32
we are a fraud and fraud and trust and safety platform that helps businesses
2:36
protect themselves. uh and their consumers against various forms of
2:40
online abuse. And we do it um through mechanical advantage ways via AI and
2:45
machine learning. And so uh it’s a pleasure to be with you today. And I’ll
2:49
pass the mic over to my colleague Alexander.
2:53
Thank you Kevin. Hey everybody. Thank you for taking the time to be here. Uh
2:57
my name is Alexander Hall and I’m a trust and safety architect at Syft. I
3:01
have 17 years of fraud related experience. 10 of those years were spent
3:05
operating as a fraudster where I identified vulnerabilities and authored
3:08
new methods. In 2017, I made the shift from dark to light. And uh since then,
3:13
I’ve been working with financial institutions, merchants, marketplaces to
3:17
help them uh define and refine their fraud strategies overall. And then
3:23
earlier this year, I have the great I had the great honor of joining the SIFT
3:27
team as a trust and safe architect. Extremely excited to be here. Uh we’ve
3:31
got a lot of great great insight coming for you in this webinar. So thank you
3:35
again for being here. Uh let’s have some fun.
3:40
>> All right. So in terms of top of mind for us, here’s the kind of the main
3:45
points that we want to get across to make sure that you and your team are set
3:48
up for success as we enter in this holiday period. So we definitely talk
3:53
about departmental considerations as you go into the
3:56
holiday season. look at the big picture here in terms of
3:59
what are the I’ll call it three big buckets or streams of work to be mindful
4:04
of as you go into this particular period. Um, of course, we’re going to
4:08
spend the bulk of the time talking about different holiday fraud uh related
4:12
trends and things that we’re seeing. Um, and then also around uh chargebacks.
4:17
They are inevitable to some extent. Some of them are in your control, some of
4:20
them not so much. Um so provide some actionable insights on that front and of
4:25
course leave some time for Q&A uh from you all to kind of make sure that we are
4:29
addressing the most pertinent things on your mind.
4:33
Uh so to kick things off, let’s kind of start at that 30,000 foot level uh and
4:38
discuss kind of different departmental considerations um as we move in to this
4:43
holiday season. And so Alexander, I’ll hand it over to you kind of to talk
4:47
through these three different buckets or work streams.
4:51
Absolutely. So, uh, from the 30,000 foot view and as Kevin had mentioned, we are
4:56
heading into what is retail and merchant Super Bowl. And not only is it the Super
5:02
Bowl, but it is the biggest Super Bowl yet. While I was doing reports and and
5:07
looking for insight, I found that in just five days of uh the cyber week, in
5:12
just five days, we are going to uh be seeing $40 billion more in US sales. And
5:18
that’s according to Adobe. Uh as you see there, it’s a 7% increase over 2023.
5:24
It’s just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And so if we look at this, this
5:28
amount of sales through the lens of fraud, we see that there are numerous
5:32
ways that fraud enters our system. There are numerous ways that abuse enters our
5:36
system. And when we start to lay it all out, we start to define three pieces of
5:41
a of a game plan that we can hop into uh as we move into the season. So the first
5:46
step is going to be to prepare for the season. So starting in October, there
5:50
are different organizations that that cite things like seasonal hiring,
5:54
associated training, maybe adjustments in policies and procedures. There’s
5:59
going to be preparation for an increase in volume. So we need people manning the
6:03
the uh call center calls. We need more people in fulfillment. All of these
6:07
items have fraud related exploits tied with them. We’ll get into that in a
6:11
little bit. When it comes to executing this high volume adds additional stress,
6:16
additional pressure, additional accuracy needs to come into play. And so there
6:21
are systems that come into play uh and adjustments that are made during the
6:24
holiday season to ensure that we are executing effective manner. When it
6:28
comes to responding, that’s where your chargebacks are coming in. And that time
6:32
frame persists all the way through some people say February of 2025. Of course,
6:38
there’s no definitive end date, but uh after the holiday season leading well
6:43
into 20 and 25, we’re going to be dealing with returns. We’re going to be
6:46
dealing with refunds, dealing with chargebacks, both true fraud and
6:50
friendly fraud. And um most importantly, every organization should be taking the
6:55
time to reflect on their performance over the holiday season to ensure that
6:59
they knew exactly what happened and they can prepare best for what happens.
7:07
All right. So, one thing to notice and to to call out like I know the folks on
7:12
the call, we are all dedicated to our I’ll call it fraud craft and making sure
7:17
that all things in this zone are taken care of. We’re mindful of it. We’re
7:21
prepared for it. Um, but also know that fraud impacts the entire organization
7:27
and as the organization goes into this time period, they’re probably worried
7:33
about fulfillment and inventory and promotions and making sure all those
7:38
things are lined up. We are in I’ll call it in an orchestra here where we all
7:42
have our part to play. We all have our different instruments. Um, and we’re
7:46
certainly focused on on that fraud side, but we do know that uh when it comes to
7:50
fraud, it is a missionritical thing for the business. Like I mentioned earlier,
7:54
this is when businesses move into the black. Um, and that’s a a great feeling
7:59
and that’s what you we’re all preparing for, but we don’t want I’ll call it the
8:05
the drag of fraud or it can create that resistance um as we’re trying to onboard
8:10
and get all these good customers through the pipeline. It’s something that’s top
8:13
of mind for us. And so Alexander called out those losses um and now can he can
8:19
step us through a little bit more around what kind of what is the size and scope
8:24
um of what we’re talking about. Sure. So as you see on the left there 48
8:29
billion has been reported as being annual fraud losses in the US. I believe
8:34
it was uh commerce sales are growing nearly $1.2 trillion and 16.2% of that
8:41
is owned by retail. There’s a calculation that happens uh in the fraud
8:46
prevention industry that generally speaking we can rely on 1% of all
8:50
revenue being lost to fraud. 1% of all revenue being lost to fraud. So let’s
8:56
think about that and then let’s also consider two important items. One, any
9:00
report that comes in is incomplete because no matter how you look at it,
9:04
there is fraud that hasn’t been reported. And then two, there are
9:08
different ways to calculate losses. Do we just look at chargebacks? Do we just
9:13
look at the loss of retail um products? Do we just look at um whatever the the
9:19
cost benefit is to customer acquisitions? How far down in the
9:24
granularity uh in the granular details do we get when we’re making these
9:27
calculations to see what fraud and abuse uh impact is actually worth to an
9:32
organization? So when we come when we zoom back out and we say that 1% of all
9:36
revenue is lost to fraud, we have to consider well is it actually two or
9:40
three and our data isn’t telling us that story. So it’s shocking to see that 48
9:45
billion is being accredited fraud as an identified loss because we don’t know
9:51
how big that number actually is.
9:54
>> And I’ll chime in there ju just to say like that’s really around sounds like
9:58
the floor, right? where this is where we actually lost x amount of dollars. Um
10:03
the other auxiliary kind of considerations to think about is things
10:08
like customer acquisition cost and customer insult rate. We’re not going to
10:12
bat a thousand here. I know it’s the the playoffs, so baseball is on the mind
10:16
where we’re not going to be perfect. We’re not going to hit every single kind
10:19
of fraudster here. Uh but and so there are there is going to be consideration
10:23
for the times that we are incorrect. And so something to also be mindful of and
10:28
something I talked about with our clients and even before when I was a
10:32
merchant is what is our customer insult rate? How many times are we wrong? How
10:37
many how are we measuring it? Uh we can maybe in a separate time frame go into
10:41
talk about how we do that in a more data driven way. But it’s not just the bottom
10:46
line. I know we talk about the bottom line a lot. 48 billion is a big number.
10:50
Um but that’s just the floor. And so there is some topline considerations to
10:53
think of as well. That’s a great point. That’s the floor.
10:58
Yeah. And as shocking as these numbers are, uh there’s a lot of room to improve
11:02
accuracy and efficiency 100%. So in terms of we mentioned, hey the
11:11
fraud team, it’s an entire ecosystem here and we are fighting more than just
11:14
fraud. And so uh we have this diagram to kind of illustrate it. So I’ll pass over
11:19
to Alexander to kind of describe what we’re seeing here.
11:22
>> So don’t be overwhelmed. This uh this slide is intended to be overwhelming
11:26
because for all of you leaders out there, this is a small example of what
11:32
our teams are facing when they’re in the trenches, when they’re in the day-to-day
11:36
duties of fighting fraud. On the right hand side, we see a representation of
11:39
the fraud economy, how the fraudsters are operating on the back end, how they
11:43
interact with each other, the methods and the tactics that they use. Down in
11:47
the bottom left we see tool proliferation, how our tools are
11:51
segmented and how our reporting is segmented and siloed and then and then
11:56
actually specifically the teams being siloed up to the top left. All of these
12:01
things come together and create this perfect storm of of of disruption that
12:06
makes things even more difficult to to operate in. And so the reason I brought
12:10
this up is because I wanted to articulate to the leaders out there that
12:14
not only is it enough to fight fraud on its own, but it’s also there are
12:19
challenges needed uh through communication between departments. There
12:23
are a lot of evolving tactics. There’s just a lot to wrap our head through
12:27
within all of this. Uh we’re going to move into the next slide where we where
12:32
we bring up to the forefront the most top of- mind items that are going to be
12:38
present this holiday season.
12:42
>> And so
12:43
>> Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
12:44
>> Go ahead.
12:45
>> I was just gonna I know we had some uh people join here, so I was just going to
12:48
relaunch the poll so uh people could add in their thoughts before we share the
12:53
results. So I’ll just relaunch that now.
12:55
>> Oh, thanks Ela. Um, and then just kind of last comment on the uh the the prior
13:01
slide here and really one thing to be mindful of as and the question I’d ask
13:07
you as the audience is as you go into this season, how often are you syncing
13:13
up with let’s say your marketing team, your customer support team, maybe at
13:17
this point you’ve done some cross trainining for them and so you can also
13:20
hire externally for seasonal support. Um, but really when it comes to siloed
13:25
teams, we feel it a lot more during this season because we’re just flooded with
13:30
these influx of orders, right? And so all the little cracks can become chasms
13:36
essentially to to deal with and that can be uh cause a lot of stress for the
13:40
team. And so what are the things that we’re doing to prepare ourselves? And
13:45
even having a a quick one-on-one with the customer success manager or the
13:51
marketing folks to understand what sort of time timelines are they’re working
13:54
on, how are they preparing for this influx can really benefit not just
13:58
yourself but really your team to make sure that you’re set up set up for
14:02
success and when those flood of orders come in. Inevitably there might be some
14:07
snags along the way but you are working cohesively as a team. So we do break
14:12
down some of those silos. All right. So next up really wanted to
14:19
dive into a little bit more about the fraud impact throughout the holiday
14:22
season and we’re going to hit up kind of five main I’ll call them hot spots um
14:27
with regards to these different zones. So over the next few slides um we’ll
14:32
kind of walk you through what that means. So Alexander, I’ll let you kick
14:36
it off first.
14:37
>> Sure. So although it isn’t holiday specific, we across the entire industry
14:42
have seen a consistent uptick in ATOS uh just across the board. So I feel that
14:47
as we head into the holiday season, this should be an item that’s top of mind
14:51
considerations.
14:53
>> Next up is around gift cards like uh we’ll show some stats around how popular
14:59
they actually are now. Um certainly like I go to Costco, I see a ton of gift
15:03
cards. They’re great deals. I can buy them for myself, but I also buy them for
15:06
others during the holiday season as well. Um, so we’ll definitely want to
15:09
dive into a little bit of that as well.
15:12
>> Payment fraud is on the rise consistently by volume. It’s still
15:16
represents the most losses. So, it’s definitely going to be even more
15:20
impactful during the holiday season when we see those spikes occur.
15:25
>> And then the next one around, I’ll call them customer insults. Like we want to
15:28
understand what our good user behavior looks like. And one thing to keep note
15:32
is look 99 plus% of the population especially during the holiday season
15:38
they are legit and they actually want to spend money. So how can we enable them
15:42
to do that on our platforms and that’s kind of what we want to unlock a little
15:46
bit more
15:47
>> and then we all know that policy first party return refund and then the holiday
15:52
chargebacks uh is is an entire ecosystem unto itself. So, we’re definitely spend
15:57
some time discussing uh some actionable insight around that.
16:04
>> All right. So, let’s break it down. Alexander, take us through some some ATO
16:07
stats here.
16:09
>> Absolutely. So, if we look at the graphs that are on site are on screen, you’re
16:13
going to see that in Q uh in 2023, it started to taper down, but then starting
16:19
earlier this year, Q1, it started to skyrocket. And this has only persisted
16:24
over time. the there are reports all over the internet about compromised
16:28
accounts both from the general public as well as businesses and then streaming
16:31
steaming over to or streaming over to uh financial institutions in different
16:35
industries and so I I want to take a second here to talk about why it’s this
16:39
way what what we can do about it how we can identify it uh why it’s important to
16:44
fraudsters things like that and I feel that what I’ll share is uh and I and I
16:50
speak from experience when I say this uh first and formost Most an account
16:55
takeover is valuable to a fraudster because anything that an account holder
16:59
can do uh if a fraudster gets access to that account now the fraudster can do it
17:03
right and that for a lot of people who are dealing with fraud for a while they
17:06
get that but that’s what it is an established account being taken over by
17:10
a bad actor and then doing bad things on the and so if you draw industry lines
17:15
and you start to look at all of the different ways that an account can be
17:18
valuable you’ll start to see that not all atto result in charge backs. So if
17:25
all of our data stems from chargebacks in order to tell us about our fraud
17:29
performance, that might work for payment, it doesn’t necessarily work for
17:34
ATOS. There are plenty of cases where someone logs into an established
17:37
account, they transact with a stolen payment method, and then yes, it’s
17:41
that’s down the line representative charge. But let’s zoom out and let’s
17:45
look at something like an i gaming platform where somebody where a bad
17:49
actor takes over an established account. They deposit stolen funds and then they
17:53
withdraw it. The deposited funds might be represented there, but if it makes it
17:57
through that now the now the the platform gets to be a bank for the
18:01
fraudster. If we shift focus and we move over to a different type of platform,
18:05
maybe social media, what chargebacks are going to be represented there in 18,
18:10
right? And so if we based on industry lines start to zoom out and evaluate
18:15
what kind of value there is in store for our users, we can start to see where we
18:20
need data in order to indicate to us whether or not uh an ATO is taking
18:24
place, what actions they might seek to take and then we can start to build our
18:28
strategy around.
18:34
>> Awesome. And then really the next section here is around 2FA rate. And so
18:39
I’d say we are like we’re all consumers, right? And on any given day I’d ask like
18:45
how many notifications do you receive? And really the TLDDR or the summary for
18:50
me on this particular section is that we’ve become more and this is a good
18:56
thing more desensitized to account access notifications. So whether it’s
19:01
for work, you might get a I was just in Las Vegas with Alexander for a
19:05
conference. I got a bunch of notifications saying, “Hey, you’re
19:07
logging in from a new zone. Is this you?” “Yes, it’s me.” And it’s
19:12
convenient enough for me. I have my phone on me, of course. And so, the
19:15
barrier to entry as a good consumer um has gone down considerably. And I’d
19:20
argue that the uh that barrier is low enough now to where we’re almost we are
19:27
trained that it’s not a nuisance, but it’s actually more of a positive
19:31
security notification. and I do want my bank or I do want um some of these sites
19:37
that I’m operating on, I do expect them to notify me and I’m not upset about it
19:43
or or anything like that. And so I think in general, at least in the US and
19:47
abroad as well, we’ve become more comfortable with these kind of
19:51
two-factor authentications.
19:54
>> Yeah, I agree. Uh, I know that that uh as far as I’m concerned, I know I get I
20:00
get updates every time Ariana Grande posts a new video and every time Logan
20:04
Paul posts a new video. So, within that stream of notifications, if I’m getting
20:09
getting notified that someone tried to access my account, I know I’m happy to
20:12
interact.
20:14
>> All about prioritization, you know. So, if we’re okay with that, we should be
20:17
okay with, let’s say, a notification from our bank, an e-commerce provider.
20:22
Like I know Amazon Prime Day was just like a few days ago. I got notifications
20:27
for that. Not the highest priority, but I still didn’t mind getting them.
20:32
All right. Um, next up is around physical and digital gift cards. And so,
20:39
um, there are obviously different methods at play here. I think Alexander
20:42
has a great perspective on this, so wanted to let him kind of share some of
20:46
these, uh, stories and actionable recommendations. Sure. So, one method uh
20:53
from my past that um I’d like to share with you guys who are your omni channel
20:58
merchants here who have physical instore gift cards. Uh something to be aware of.
21:02
This picture is one that I took. I went to the store. I saw the rack. Uh and so
21:07
I wanted to bring that to this webinar because this is this is where I would
21:12
this is where I would strike. And the way that it worked was I would go and
21:15
grab one of those stacks and I would take it back to the back to my house.
21:19
So, it would take numerous stacks, just take a whole bunch of gift cards off the
21:22
rack, take it back home, and I would use a razor blade to lift off the scratch
21:27
and the the scratch the scratch off, and I’d write down the information. I create
21:32
this Excel spreadsheet, write it all down, whatever it was. Then, I would
21:36
damage the pin number that was underneath the scratcher, and I would
21:40
replace the scratcher. Then I would take it back to a nice location, go to the
21:44
nicest uh retail store in town that had the same gift cards, and I would go put
21:49
them back on the rack, right? And and what would end up happening is,
21:53
especially around the holiday season, uh people go to these stores, they would
21:58
buy these cards, they would load them up, and then they would be dormant for
22:02
what, 30 days, 45 days, 60 days. I mean, I know I’ve got some gift cards that are
22:07
in my wallet from two years ago that I just never got around to spending,
22:10
right? So, during that time of dormcancy, I would go and check the the
22:15
values on each and every card and I’d figure out how to load it into a wallet
22:19
or how to transact with it, you know, through the website. And as the majority
22:23
of you guys know, the liability of gift cards is such that there’s no rec
22:29
there’s no recourse to take for the consumer to get that value back. Uh once
22:34
it’s gone, it’s gone. And so um as far as quantifying the value of one season
22:39
of this, uh I believe the last time I did it, it was about 20K. It’s about
22:45
$20,000 came from just doing this method, right? And so I want
22:51
to make that aware aware to you. But then in addition to that, I want to
22:55
switch over to digital gift cards. Uh, and this is especially relevant for
22:58
those of you in the digital goods and services um, arena because digital gift
23:04
cards don’t need a shipping address. And a lot of the rules-based systems that
23:08
exist in the world have a heavy tie to shipping addresses or they they bring
23:12
that in very heavily into their into their uh, decision-making process. And
23:17
so with digital delivery of these digital gift cards, that very important
23:22
element is now removed. Well, then what do we replace that with? and it creates
23:26
a whole new type of calculation that we use when we’re trying to make decisions.
23:30
We’re trying to build automation. We’re trying to work within that world. Um,
23:35
yeah. So, I just wanted to bring up that for you. As we see on screen, gift card
23:39
sales are only growing. It’s only a matter of time before this type of
23:43
method uh proliferate or uh propagates throughout the broad industry and
23:48
becomes more and more important that we defend against.
23:53
And the last comment I’ll make out there in um working with a lot of folks in
23:58
this space is one thing that not every business has, but I’d say um it’s
24:05
definitely worthwhile to invest in is the ability to essentially track their
24:11
gift cards better and no store that store those numbers that Alexander was
24:15
talking about. And if you have the ability to disable some of those
24:19
numbers, not everybody does. Um, maybe it’s a little bit late in the game to do
24:23
it now for this holiday season, but something to potentially plan for next
24:27
year is how strong is our gift card game when it comes to tracking and also
24:33
disabling uh cards if needed. All right, so let’s kind of shift gears
24:40
more to the payment fraud side. And so, Alexander, kind of take us through kind
24:44
of what this looks like from your perspective.
24:48
Uh, so payment fraud, right, that’s that’s the number one in all all across
24:53
the board. Payment fraud has been the the number one concern for years and
24:57
years and years and we only expect to see that rise in in Q4 uh as we head
25:02
into the holiday season. So, it’s an old story, but for those of you who might be
25:06
new fraud fighters, let’s go ahead and get into it a little bit. The basis is
25:10
fraudsters are aware that what they want is uh equally available during the
25:16
holiday season. During the holiday season, fraudsters anticipate the fact
25:21
that shipping addresses and devices and the the rules that are in play during
25:26
the rest of the the this the year are are less stringent during the holiday
25:31
season because of course retailers need to open up some of their processes in
25:35
order to allow for people to transact. Uh maybe it’s a new shipping address
25:39
that someone’s never shipped to before. Maybe they’re shipping it to their
25:42
brother in New York when they live in California. Fraudsters anticipate that
25:46
there’s a little bit of leniency given during the holiday season. So, not only
25:50
do fraudsters still want the same stuff, they want to capitalize on holiday
25:54
spending. They want to get as much bang for their buck when they use the stolen,
25:57
you know, payment payment information, but they also know that the rules are
26:02
the rulebased systems are a little bit more laxed during the holiday season. So
26:07
yearover-year this has persisted and grown and will continue to grow. So the
26:12
considerations for this um typically in response as you see below retailers are
26:17
hiring 520,000 new jobs were reported to be hired and I think I pulled that from
26:22
a uh Target Kohl’s and Amazon they reported that and they were hired
26:28
520,000 new jobs just to handle this volume. you know, maybe it’s not all
26:33
fraud related, but to handle this increase in volume, uh, they’re they’re
26:38
expanding their teams tremendously.
26:42
>> And then one thing just to cap on this one is around with those new hires that
26:47
are joining, number one, they’re they’re new, right? And so they may not know all
26:51
the ins and outs and all the in intricacies when it comes to the fraud
26:54
side. I I also say that this is a bit of a a sprint and so at some point fatigue
26:59
could come into play where you do get that onslaught of orders. You want to
27:03
push them through the queue and fulfill those as as quickly as you can. And so
27:07
maybe uh you miss uh one or two transactions uh but you multiply that by
27:12
everybody on the team. And so those things can potentially exacerbate the
27:16
issue. So again, one of those things to be kind of mindful of as we go into um
27:21
this time of year. And so the next one is around uh
27:27
chargeback preparation. And so maybe let’s fast forward a little bit more to
27:32
January 1st or kind of post holiday time. Uh we often call it a holiday
27:37
hangover just because we our work doesn’t end. You definitely have to
27:41
switch kind of mindsets a little bit and more into that that chargeback side. And
27:45
so, Alexander, you want to take us through through through this one?
27:48
>> Sure. Uh, for everybody watching, I want to direct your attention to Q1 of 2024.
27:54
You see that big spike right there? That’s January 2024, right? We might see
28:00
following that that there was a quick fall-off, but we’re anticipating an
28:03
equal spike as we head into Q1, 2025. So January 1, Q1, 2025, we’re dealing not
28:11
only with chargebacks, but we’re dealing with relative friendly fraud
28:14
chargebacks. We’re dealing with relative returns and refunds, which again is
28:19
putting more pressure on those teams that are that are receiving those items,
28:23
that are issuing those refunds, that are doing the verifications. And when it
28:28
comes to uh identifying the difference between true fraud and friendly fraud,
28:34
there are a lot of ways to approach it. We’re going to get into that actually
28:37
when we get into uh the next uh couple of slides. But for this one, I wanted to
28:42
just bring to your attention this is a very significant spike whenever we look
28:46
at what we see in Q1. So just be prepared for that. We’ll get into the
28:50
strategic considerations. And then the next one is um around we
28:56
mentioned the the good users out there and we want to essentially create
29:00
scenarios that can customers can quickly like there’s flash sales and all those
29:05
things to take advantage of. They’re in they’re the consumer mindset shifts
29:09
right they’re in spend spend spend mode and so really we want to make sure that
29:14
accuracy is is top of mind. And so, Alexander, kind of walk us through your
29:19
your take here on when it comes to things like verified users and and these
29:23
spending habits.
29:24
>> Yeah, I didn’t want the whole webinar to be doom and gloom, so I wanted to end on
29:28
a high note for for these uh for these trends. Uh mobile transactions are going
29:32
to represent half more than half of all online purchases on the holiday season.
29:37
Now, this does have some considerations to make when we’re dealing with data,
29:40
when we’re trying to identify what it takes to be accurate because these these
29:44
users are going to be, you know, moving across the country. They’re going to be
29:47
going out of country, still spending to buy their gifts for their loved ones and
29:51
gifts for their friends. Um, but but their behaviors are going to change,
29:55
right? And so, what we want to do is consciously meet our customer where they
30:00
are. Understanding that half of the people that responded to this poll are
30:04
going to be traveling. We need to anticipate that uh they’re they’re not
30:10
going to be in the same geoloccation. They might not be on the same IP
30:13
address. They might not be there, but one thing they do take with them is
30:17
their phone. Right? So device intelligence becomes uh even more
30:21
important during the holiday season if we’re looking to avoid customer insult
30:25
and if we’re looking to be as uh customer driven as possible. We want to
30:30
anticipate uh their actions and nurture them uh through the customer experience
30:35
journey. So it’s all good news by volume. Uh but we just want to make sure
30:39
that we meet them where they are and anticipate uh what their spending habits
30:43
might be.
30:45
>> So as you get into that that process, one thing I’ll ask like you the audience
30:49
member is let’s say you do have some rules in place. What considerations are
30:55
you looking at and analyzing on how much do you want to lift that piece? So maybe
31:01
you have some velocity checks, maybe you have some dollar caps or pound caps,
31:05
euro caps, etc. on transactions that you might want to set up for uh two-factor
31:11
authentication or manual review, all those things. What increase is that
31:17
going to look like look like for your your team? So you know that you can only
31:21
review let’s say manually x amount of orders per day or per week given that
31:26
potential increase in volume. What is that going to look like with the rules
31:30
that you have in place today? And that’s really where rules are great. I I view
31:34
them as a backs stop. They are definitely a key cog in that fraud
31:38
stack. But if you are using that as your primary kind of defense against these
31:43
these these volumes, you might the the the penalty of that or the the downside
31:48
of that is that you might have to invest more in human resources which can be
31:51
expensive as well to to to to take on that blow of extra uh transactions. And
31:57
I mean no secret that’s why AI and ML can be your mechanical advantage there.
32:02
So also work with your either internal team or your vendor on how we’re tuning
32:07
the models in preparation for this time of the year. Like you should absolutely
32:10
tune your uh rules uh but also how are we tuning our models and in this in this
32:16
preparation over the next kind of several weeks.
32:20
All right. So let’s kind of shift gears a little bit to disputes. Um now it’s a
32:25
little bit of the other side of the coin here. Um, but there’s always these
32:29
different elements to consider uh when we get into that mix. And so, Alexander,
32:34
kind of walk us through when you look at this, I’ll call it a bubble chart. What
32:38
do you see here? And and why does it actually matter?
32:42
>> So, this really set sets the stage for everything chargebacks get to leverage
32:46
and everything that that predates the chargeback coming into effect. Right? So
32:52
for me when I look at it at an effective fraud prevention strategy it’s comprised
32:56
of many elements. Uh identity might be one. Consider everywhere where where a
33:02
user is interacting with your platform and transacting with identity
33:05
information. Meaning that identity information is available at any touch
33:09
point. So we think about account creation. Then we also think about
33:12
login. And then we think about uh we have listed here device and behavior.
33:16
Well how is that customer interacting with your platform? What pages are they
33:19
loading? Where are they looking? what are they searching? Then we have the
33:23
transaction of course. Then we have the fulfillment across the entire journey.
33:27
We have all these different elements wherein a centric uh a central identity
33:31
uh is being presented to us in different data points. And I feel that that is
33:35
super important whenever we’re building up our strategy
33:39
in preparation for responding to chargebacks because every user whether
33:42
it’s a good user or a bad actor every user is interacting with the platform
33:47
and presenting this information to us. It’s our job to take it and understand
33:52
it and see the whole story there. And so that’s why I bring this up. One
33:56
important thing to note is for the rem for the for the rest of the year, one
34:01
set of rules, one set of insight, one set of processes is going to be
34:05
effective heading into the holiday season. As we mentioned up above, we
34:09
have this increase in volume. We have holiday specific exploits and trends.
34:13
We’ve got, you know, half of our customer base is travel. we’ve got
34:17
digital goods and services that are being purchased uh you know at a at a
34:22
higher rate and all of these different things come into play and so during the
34:26
holiday season want to take what is a fundamental fraud strategy we want to
34:30
adjust it to work with the holiday uh with the holiday season so a few of the
34:34
the callouts that I would say are if you are you I think Kevin you just mentioned
34:38
this if you are using a rules-based system you’re going to want to go in now
34:42
and try to work with them to fine-tune it for the holiday season based on the
34:46
behaviors you’re expecting from both good users and bad actors. You’re also
34:51
going to uh to want to anticipate um where on your platform you don’t have
34:59
data that can support potential disputes uh in your repres representments down
35:04
the line. So, it’s a whole big picture, but once you get that ball rolling, it’s
35:10
something you can chip away at, be effective,
35:13
and then uh all of it will feed uh into successful win rates for your target.
35:20
>> And then one thing to note, and as you kind of prep and audit your your rules,
35:23
let’s say, the rules that you had in August will not be as effective as they
35:29
are in November uh just because of the change in behavior from our consumers.
35:34
And so that’s the mindset that I go into it with of knowing that the behavior
35:39
changed and what is it’s not quite the new normal but what is the holiday
35:43
normal and what is that going to look like for my team when I think about
35:47
manual review hit rate block rate all those different types of things and then
35:52
as we work cross functionally one of the things to kind of keep in mind is how do
35:56
we talk with our teams uh cross functional teams that is to prepare them
36:01
for these things and so that’s really where the synergy can happen as well.
36:08
All right, so let’s talk about holiday related kind of data changes and so um
36:13
kind of Alexander walk us through what that looks like uh when it comes to
36:17
different user behavior.
36:19
>> Sure. So, uh on the different slides previously, we’ve kind of hinted at a
36:24
couple of different changes. I want to bring it all together on this one and
36:27
really highlight for for you guys, the teams out there, what changes you’re
36:32
going to want to consider. um when making what what data changes and how to
36:37
use that change uh in determining what your processing should be. So first and
36:41
foremost the shipping address becomes much less important and this is
36:45
definitely a call out over to you digital goods and services who never
36:48
deal with the shipping address or who very rarely deal with the shipping
36:51
address. Right? So for e-commerce and retail the shipping address becomes much
36:55
much less relevant. Right? When we go back, you know, to uh early stages of
37:01
fraud prevention strategy development at a e-commerce retailer, what we see is we
37:06
see the AVS being leveraged very heavily. Then we see the billing and the
37:09
shipping address matching and that that kind of a a rule starting off uh is a
37:14
very fundamental rule when you’re first building up your first fraud program,
37:18
right? This completely breaks that because so many users are not going to
37:23
be shipping to their own address. You know, Grandma Susan is sending sending
37:29
the new big box uh the new big box toy over to Billy in Florida, right? She’s
37:35
in California. So, no longer is that relationship going to be so so rigid,
37:40
right? So, let’s consider that. Second is the spending behaviors. I just spoke
37:43
about Grandma Susan sending it off to to little boy Jimmy. Uh PS5s going out. I
37:49
remember that was the hot one a few years ago and still actually is
37:52
persisting to be. The spending behaviors of established accounts are going to
37:58
raise during this year. So behaviors are not going to be the same as they had
38:02
been throughout the throughout the guess rest of the year. Then there’s velocity
38:06
on top of that. Right? So consider that the spending behavior is going to change
38:11
dramatically. The shipping addresses are going to change dramatically. The value
38:15
of each order is going to change dramatically. And then combine that with
38:19
the 52% uh metric of travel this year,
38:23
geoloccation. They’re no longer transacting from from an area that’s in
38:28
proximity to their billing address. They’re in Florida with a billing
38:32
address in California sending a package to New York. With rules-based systems,
38:37
this is going to look suspicious. It’s going to raise a lot of flags. It’s
38:40
going to inundate your your uh analysis, your team, your teams of analysis uh
38:45
analysts, sorry. And it’s going to be, as Kevin said, the rules in August are
38:52
going to be much less effective in November. Then the last thing I want to
38:56
touch down on, there’s a lot of first-time users are going to be popping
38:58
up during the holiday season, right? So, I might not have ever gone to, you know,
39:04
some fancy clothing store specifically, but I know that my sister-in-law is
39:09
really crazy about that particular jacket. So, I go make an account there.
39:13
I’ve never been there before. I’m here for this specific item and I’m sending
39:17
it over to her. Imagine what that looks like in the data that’s being aggregated
39:22
and what can we do to be confident and effective in our
39:27
decisions moving forward.
39:32
>> All right. So, this next section is really around if again if we fast
39:36
forward to the January 1 time frame, um that’s when your charge ducks are going
39:41
to come in typically, right? Like people are going to get their credit card
39:44
statements post holiday. They might uh recognize most of those transactions.
39:48
They might not recognize some. And so these next three tips here really to
39:54
help ensure that yeah, you’re going to get some chargebacks. What are some ways
39:57
to lighten the load either for your team and actually for consumers as well? And
40:02
so for the first one, really ensuring your business name is properly uh
40:07
labeled on these line items. And it sounds kind of silly, but I remember
40:11
when I uh worked at Square and I ran the fraud team over there, oftentimes and we
40:15
represented a ton of micro merchants and SMB style businesses as well. And the
40:21
line item might have said Alexander’s beans as the line item or Alexander and
40:28
I, as a consumer, 30 days later, I’m like, what? What is this Alexander
40:32
thing? I don’t recognize it. It’s for 100 bucks. I’m going to issue a
40:35
chargeback or dispute on it. Now, if Alexander had taken the time to say like
40:40
this is Alexander’s like coffee beans or been a bit more descriptive on what is
40:44
there, um that could have avoided that. It’s not even friendly fraud. That’s
40:49
just a um unknown unknown charge. And so there are things that you can help
40:53
yourself. So talk to let’s say your payments team in this case to see what
40:57
does that line item description look like. Depending on the the processor you
41:02
use, you might get I won’t call it a cheat, but uh the character limit that
41:06
you’re allowed might be extended a little bit. Sometimes you can you can be
41:09
a bit creative with um sneaking in a a URL or something where if the consumer
41:14
is looking at their credit card statement and let’s say online, they can
41:18
click for more information and then let’s say it leads to Alexander’s Coffee
41:21
Bean website’s like, “Oh yes, I shipped that to my sister-in-law. This is good.”
41:25
And so you can do those things to avoid uh some of those chargebacks that you
41:29
might have to work later on. Um we didn’t talk too much about return fraud,
41:35
but it’s definitely a uh a thing. And also it can definitely behoove you to
41:42
list out and be clear about what your consumer what what your refund policy
41:46
is. Sometimes uh on websites uh they might be nonrefundable just because it’s
41:52
a flash sale or something like that. oftentimes businesses this time of year,
41:57
they extend their refund window. So maybe I buy something on Black Friday.
42:02
Uh maybe typically it’s a 30-day return window, but for holidays, maybe it gets
42:06
extended to 60. Being clear about what that is for your consumers, um that can
42:10
actually make them feel more comfortable buying from you because like, oh, I
42:14
can’t do 30 days because what if Susan doesn’t like that jacket now it’s a
42:18
60-day. These are all things that can help you number one make customers
42:22
understand what they’re getting into. Number two, make them feel more
42:25
confident ultimately in buying that item. Um and also and this is where the
42:30
last one is around where businesses still shocks me a little bit sometimes.
42:35
U but when it comes to what data the consumer is actually sending you often
42:41
times the customer success team or the marketing team they actually already
42:45
collect these data points but they’re not necessarily exposed to the fraud
42:49
team. And this is where silo teams and technology is going to come kind of come
42:52
into play where the systems don’t talk to each other. And so unfortunately the
42:57
onus can kind of lead back up to that fraud team to have to connect those
43:00
dots, but those dots and those breadcrumbs are there. And so definitely
43:05
do take the time to poke around with with other teams to see like, hey, what
43:10
details are we already collecting? We don’t want to create any more friction
43:14
for our consumers at the end of the day. Like that’s going to create kind of more
43:17
downstream impact on that front. But if we’re already collecting that data for
43:20
other purposes for the business, how can we leverage it to make our our team’s
43:25
job easier when it comes to representment and fighting those
43:29
chargebacks? Because if the bill ship do match uh IP, device info, all that
43:34
stuff, we have previous transaction history, all those work in our favor
43:38
when it comes to winning these chargebacks. Like yes, you want a
43:41
kick-ass fraud stack and system up front to block and deter all those chargebacks
43:46
that are coming in. You are going to get some like like I said, we’re not going
43:50
to bat a thousand here, but when they come in, if there are either
43:54
opportunistic fraudsters out there, there might be some friendly fraud out
43:57
there, some return fraud out there, all those screenshots and all those data
44:01
points will definitely increase your ability to kind of push back and fight
44:05
back. Um, in that regard, I think this might be the last one we
44:11
touch on is around uh reporting. So kind of Alexander, take us through like what
44:15
are the specific KPIs that you would expect a team uh to look for and monitor
44:19
for during this time of year. There’s a lot. Right. So, this is in my
44:26
opinion, this is the most fun, right? I live in data. I love taking data to to
44:31
extract action. I love telling picture. I love painting pictures and telling
44:34
stories with data. And this is where everything is, right? And so, when we go
44:39
back and we review the data of the of the holiday season, we’re going to see
44:43
which methods did we properly anticipate we were going to run into. We can begin
44:48
to see what iterations there are. When we think about payment fraud, the big
44:53
bad wolf, the payment fraud, that has one course of action leading to that
44:56
checkout form. Checkout form has to be hit. The thing that I want to draw
45:01
attention to is that ATO’s don’t necessarily have to end in a
45:06
transaction. Plenty do. So, don’t let me don’t let me undermine them, but not
45:10
all. Right? And for that reason, we need to understand what you what fraudsters
45:14
are doing when they access these established accounts, what their
45:18
behaviors are. And the truth of the matter is this. No one has the
45:23
information available to your organization. No one has your
45:27
organization’s specific performance. We do a great job uh at SIFT bringing
45:33
bringing additional data into our models and providing that to our users, but
45:38
nobody knows your company better than you. So this is the best opportunity for
45:43
you to see what your performance was in order for you to identify what iterated
45:47
what iterations are attacking your platform, what you need to do next, what
45:51
you need to consider next holiday season, what adjustments you maybe went
45:55
overzealous on and under. I would definitely be measuring uh the
45:59
chargeback rate. I would definitely be measuring the influx of returns and
46:03
refunds. And I would definitely be measuring uh the the volume of items
46:08
that came in and the behaviors that came in uh associated with all the
46:12
chargebacks so we can beat out bad actors.
46:16
>> And just to finish up on that piece, yes. Hey, we got to get those metrics in
46:21
place. What is the so what on this one is right now I definitely recommend
46:27
establishing what those targets could be or should be with your crossunctional
46:31
peers. And so knowing that you are going to have a higher uh approval rate just
46:37
because of the influx of good transactions, what is that target that
46:40
you’re shooting for? So inevitably when some con some end consumer writes in,
46:45
calls in uh posts on social media about, hey company X, why didn’t you send me uh
46:52
my stuff? I I’m very upset. That particular post might make it make
46:59
it might make its way to the customer success team. it might make its way to
47:02
the CEO or whoever on at the company. And it’s important, I think, for you.
47:07
It’s not about pushing back per se, but it’s establishing
47:12
the expectation of we’re going into the holiday season. Here’s what we’re
47:16
expecting and our targets when it comes to these different rates. And so, we’re
47:20
again, we’re not going to be perfect. So when a end consumer calls in or
47:25
complains about some service or item not being uh delivered and maybe it is
47:30
because they were in fact blocked by the fraud engine, can you go back to that
47:36
peer or kind of to the cross functional leadership team and say yes, we’re going
47:41
to make it right for this one particular user, but by the way, we’re currently
47:45
below the targets that we set back in October um for this time of And so it’s
47:53
it’s a defense mechanism to let leadership know that your team is
47:58
actually still doing its job and we’re under our thresholds and we’re within
48:01
ban. Again, we’re not going to be perfect, but having that conversation
48:05
now will make that future conversation because it’s inevitably going to happen
48:10
much much easier. And so it’s not like the world’s on fire, firefighting drill.
48:14
It’s like no, we understood that this this could happen. we set our metrics
48:18
for it and therefore that conversation becomes much more matterof fact and then
48:23
you move on and you keep going and so h planting those seeds now uh can avoid
48:28
future kind of pitfalls down the line. All right so just to to wrap things up
48:36
before we get into any kind of uh questions here kind of take us through
48:40
kind of what are like the the highlights here that we really want the audience to
48:44
to understand. Sure. Holiday fraud prevention is a team effort, right? We
48:49
know that fraud fraud propagates throughout the entire customer
48:52
experience journey. We know that all teams need to work together in tandem in
48:56
order to understand what the story of fraud methods are, especially with ATO’s
49:00
being as prevalent as they are. Fraud prevention is a team effort. So, let’s
49:05
get together. Let’s collaborate between departments. Let’s let’s let’s get this
49:10
uh let’s get this going well. Right. Uh number two, ATOS’s payment fraud and
49:14
abuse are top reported methods. It’s just true. Uh with the amount of cyber
49:20
security breaches that take that take place, um login information is just
49:24
flooding into the marketplace. Fraudsters are taking advantage of that.
49:27
They’re accessing accounts. The impact and the damage that is done uh across
49:32
industry lines looks different, you know, based on the industry, based on
49:36
the functionality available to accounts. So, we need to be on top of that when it
49:41
comes to payment fraud. It’s just persisting. It’s a sad thing, but it’s
49:44
persisting. And then abuse, your first party fraud, returns, and refunds. Let’s
49:48
keep that front of mind as we deal with these uh returns and refunds uh at
49:53
accounting and in fulfillment, receiving those. Let’s put our processes in place
49:57
to make sure that we’re we’re only accepting what we should, but that we
50:00
are running through them at a at a process that’s good for our users, our
50:04
customers. Data. Remember, your your customers are doing different things
50:10
during the holiday season than they would otherwise. Your good users are
50:13
traveling. Your good users are shipping uh are shipping packages to addresses
50:18
unassociated with their account. You are experiencing new behaviors from good
50:26
verified users and you’re experiencing an influx of attacks from bad actors.
50:33
So, make sure that you have your data uh set up uh appropriately to track for
50:37
these changes. And again, like I said before, make sure you’re meeting your
50:40
customers where they are. Allow them to be comfortable when they interact with
50:44
your platform. Then, most importantly, don’t let the stress get to you. It’s
50:48
the holiday season. Let it be the holiday season. Be be happy. Make sure
50:53
you eat your food and have a good time. Smile, laugh, and love.
50:59
>> Sage advice. I know certainly in leading my own teams in the past during this
51:03
time like it is a high stress high stakes time of year um I know a lot of
51:07
the teams like this shout out as just being a former fraud analyst here where
51:12
you are going to have to defer some of your stuff. It sucks to kind of have to
51:15
work the day after Christmas and um everyone’s doing their shopping thing.
51:19
You could still do your online shopping thing too but yeah you’re you’re working
51:22
and doing your thing as well. um if you can uh sometimes you kind of defer those
51:28
uh time off like you get more time off during during uh Q1 or January. Um but
51:33
definitely take time to appreciate uh the team that you’re working on and let
51:38
them know like you know I’ve done plenty of things just to make them feel
51:41
appreciated. I know many of us are kind of hybrid and remote now um but having
51:46
that team camaraderie as you enter in this time is uber important. So, um,
51:52
keep that in mind as well. And so, with that said, I know we’re running up
51:56
against time. I just want to say thank you, uh, for taking the time out to chat
52:00
today. Maybe Eli, if we do have some, uh, customer or, um, uh, audience
52:06
questions, let us have maybe one or two and we can close it out from there.
52:11
>> Sounds good. Uh, yeah, got a couple good ones here. Um
52:16
Charles asks uh what do you think will be the leading fraud method uh in 2025?
52:23
>> 2025. Okay. Is that you want to give it a go?
52:28
>> Yeah. I feel that with the abundance of identity information flooding into the
52:33
the marketplace, I feel that more platforms outside of merchant retailers
52:38
are going to begin to feel the impact of fraud even more than they have. So I
52:44
feel like for example crypto crypto wallets and fintexs, credit unions and
52:51
banks, they are all going to start seeing more fraud on their platforms
52:56
than before. And when you couple that with the fact that so many credit unions
53:00
who are who have historically been very archaic in their in their systems,
53:04
they’re they’ve been well set for a long while. They’re digitizing their
53:09
platforms. I feel that as we head into 25, we’re going to see more identity
53:14
centric fraud taking place uh in the ecosystem.
53:20
>> Awesome. Um I think let’s do one more here. Uh Becca asks, “What’s the appeal
53:26
of ATO from the fraud service perspective?”
53:30
So yeah, that’s something I would really like to to to really drill home here is
53:36
um there are a lot of conversations about how ATtos affect a platform and
53:40
the conversations lead to how do I calculate the damage that ATOs are
53:44
causing to me, right? And I think I mentioned it a little bit earlier um but
53:48
I’ll drill in here. It it not all ATOs are going to be represented in
53:52
chargebacks. Not all of them. Sure, plenty of them, but not all of them. And
53:57
so what’s very important is to identify within your specific organization and
54:01
then within your industry what are actions a a an established user can take
54:08
part in and why would a fraudster want to be able to do that. Right? So one
54:12
example that I always give is the ability to deposit funds into an account
54:17
and then withdraw those funds later on down the road. Right? So they they they
54:22
establish an account using or they they um take over an established account
54:26
through an ATO. They start to deposit funds from multiple different
54:30
instruments and then they wait or they transact or they they do whatever they
54:34
need to do to ultimately funnel it off of the platform. This benefits the
54:38
fraudster because no there’s there’s a level of insulation from the fraudster
54:43
because they’re using that established account. It’s tied to somebody else. So
54:47
any of that information, any of those bad actions are going to be tied to that
54:51
person, not the fraudster. Right? So that’s one extreme example. But if you
54:55
move over to social media, what if someone’s trying to pedal some goods,
54:59
you know, to a fake Amazon storefront, that’s not going to be represented in a
55:03
chargeback, but that’s an extremely damaging atto because now that
55:07
celebrity, that famous person, uh, is no longer going to be happy with that
55:11
platform. And then that bridges the gap over to customer satisfaction. Customers
55:15
go where they feel safe, right? And so if people’s accounts are being taken
55:19
over, regardless of what the chargebacks say, customers are not going to be too
55:24
happy with that. And with customers being the first and foremost uh customer
55:29
satisfaction being first and foremost in our in our operations, we need to make
55:33
sure that they feel safe and that they feel that their accounts are secure. So,
55:37
I just really wanted to drill down on the damage of ATO’s is represented
55:41
differently in a lot of different ways and it’s not necessarily tied to
55:45
chargebacks.
55:48
>> Sounds like a potential future kind of blog or webinar that we can dive into as
55:52
well.
55:53
>> Let’s do it.
55:54
>> Uh well, just to wrap up, thank you again for taking the time out of chat.
55:58
Really, our goal was to make sure that you got some actionable insights as you
56:02
prepare to go into this time of year. It’s an exciting time, like no doubt. We
56:06
just want to make sure that you’re locked and ready to go uh for for this
56:10
ride. And so again, thank you for taking the time out to chat with us today and
56:14
kind of walk through these different scenarios. Have a great day everybody.
56:18
Take care.



